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Currently on BFG R1's but looking to replace my 17s with 18" for my Saleen wheels. With the BFGs having worked so well considering replacing with the same but like to hear feedback from those that are either running a straight slick or even better if you've gone from a comparable R Comp to slicks. Suspect cost is going to be close on both.
I have found that what you give up in grip you gain in longevity and user friendliness.
I've used Hoosier Cup and the BFG R1. Great grip but that didn't last a lot of heat cycles and when they fell off they turned to pucks or blistered.
Toyo R888, toyo RA1, NT01, Kumho Ecsta all had really good grip but they last longer and you can run them to the threads without losing consistency.
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I'm considering the NT01's for my next set of tires after I burn through the NT05's. Might be a while though.... the NT05's still have lots left in them, even after a few seasons.
However, they caution storing the NT01's below -9C, so I would have to consider keeping the garage heated. The NT05's on the other hand have no such warning, and mine have been fine stored in the garage.
If you guys check out the CASC Ontario forums (amateur road-race sanctioning body for the area), you will sometimes see teams or individuals selling used sets of the Continental slicks used in the Touring Car Challenge series in Canada ... they are manufactured by Hoosier and are similar construction to the Hoosier R6 or R7 but with a more durable compound. The 275/35R18 that you would want is not used as much because the smaller cars are more common in the series, but they do come for sale at reasonable prices. These tires are fun to drive on, quite predictable, loads of grip especially under braking.
http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/
Thanks Ed.
Yes everyone should store their track day tires inside during the winter.
I always kept mine in the basement even though I built the shed in the yard to store all my other tires. My wife would give me odd looks when I would take tires from the shed to put them in the house in the fall.
"Sorry Dear ... because racecar".
Trying to Track Down a single R6 with Hoosier USA, to replace my damaged front one, they told me they are all gone and then went on to tell me how much improved the R7 was and that I should be prepared for a 1 to 1.5 sec reduction in times with the R7s, that's how good they are. Skeptical, I asked at Braidan, when I was there and they said same thing, there was also a dude there with a GT3 who was getting a R7 reload on his Forgelines, who evidently loves them. R7 has more grip than the R6 and more durable.
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That said, with the S197 Platform totally finished now in the World Challenge, going to try to get a set for the Forgeline or BBS Racewheels off one of the retired cars and run a 18" 305 squared set up, which offers the opportunity to fully rotate and a lot more track tire selection than the 19" staggered set up I run now.
Vorshlag motorsports had great success with a heavy s197 on Hoosier R6's
I think you need to go the other way for a change and get a pair of QTP's and really take advantage of the torque your car makes
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Are you comparing Vorshlags NASA Mustang to my car?Quote:
Originally Posted by NickD
JT I read the forum on my phone with Tapatalk and somehow didnt not see your post at all as was replying to Rick (didn't know r7 were out either)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMustangShow
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No interest in the drag strip at all, did at one time but faded after one trip round the road course. Beauty of the whole deal, having both to choose from.Quote:
Originally Posted by NickD
Nick is thinking about making the Shelby run 11's on Quick Time Hoosier DRAG radials....
Been reading lots about various auto types and tires of choice of late. Porsche and Vette guys overwhelmingly love the NTO1s for their grip (much better than most any street tire except Michelin Sport Cup 2's), consistency and long life. The tires never heat cycle out (the R6s do after as few as 6 cycles!) and are sticky right up until the cords start showing. Additionally, they do not get greasy and overheat from sliding, unlike the Hoosiers. I can attest to this from several tire sets on my vert. The Nittos also have a much broader temperature and pressure range of operation, whereas the Hoosiers are very fussy.
Most peoples opinions from the various boards is for lapping days/driving events the NT01s reign supreme from a lot of perspectives. The Hoosiers at the right temperature and app -3 camber settings will be faster, but the question is for how long? Seems that the first heat cycle is where they are the stickiest, almost like a qualifying tire, which is beyond most people's practical understanding, tech or their ability to setup or drive at that level or consistently enough.
This would certainly include anyone reading this, with the possible exception of Fast Ed, who, in his usual humble way, will chuckle and deny any kind of speed, skill or knowledge thereof. :)
Having said that, an R comp is going to offer a higher performance and lap time potential - mainly due to higher braking torque and some cornering speed increase vs a sticky street tire. Real slicks are going to be another echelon higher in terms of skill required, perfect setup and ultimate care of pressures and temperatures.
JT's Shelby on R6's handily outbrakes me (on NT01s) into turns 1 and 2, in a much heavier car with similar brakes, both on race pads. I attribute that to the tires and partially to the lighter wheels. His cornering speed was also superior, but his traction out of corners was lower, probably because of the vast amount (50% more) power than my Fox.
I would guess an R6 is worth between 1 and 2 seconds a lap at TMP over a NT01, depending on a bunch of things. I would think under our lapping circumstances a similar R comp DOT "slick" would also show a similar improvement.
Everyone has different metrics and expectations on how they want to drive and what they are prepared to do.
In my opinion, the Nitto's along with full track pads and rotors yield the most lap time improvements; certainly way more than engine power or aerodynamics.
A really supportive drivers seat is also a total necessity. That's probably worth a second a lap starting at 1:30.
Back to the OP - going to 18's is going to cost ya more bread and also weigh quite a bit more at each corner. Getting a bunch of take off qualifying or race slicks from some of the teams might prove to be a money saver, but I've heard you better have a bunch of spares with you in case of duds, carcass shifts, flatspotted, overheated, hardened, etc.
Not to discount the Brembo / Cobra R style stuff, it's amazing but pales in comparison to what JT's equipped with. While I'd love to have more, combo of 4 piston Brembo's plus CarboTech pads all round have me well into the comfortable range with braking power.
On a car with little to no push, the Nitto's are an excellent tire that will reward you with quick laps times lap after lap after lap. Put those same tires on one with moderate or above push, turn to grease in short order. Once I moved to R1's, really have no complaints just wondering if there is a better mouse trap before I pop for new skinz. Upping the ante on shocks n struts all round have only added to how well the tires can really perform.
I would be curious on the specs of the pads you are running as compared to the Hawk DTC's. Do you run brake cooling? Your Cobra's weight and power output both fall neatly into the middle between the vert and the Shelby, so the three cars should offer similar ultimate lap times once the weak links are ironed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZR
FRONT PADS.
Carbotech™ XP24™
XP24™ is the pinnacle compound of the extremely successful XP™ Series of compounds engineered by Carbotech™. This compound is based on the same fundamentals that exist in all other Carbotech™ formulations. XP24™ has even more initial bite, more overall bite, and more torque along with the most linear torque curve we have ever offered. The thermal characteristics are of the highest Carbotech™ offers along with one of the highest coefficient of friction ratings offered by anyone in the braking industry. This compound is the longest wearing compound Carbotech™ offers as it was originally engineered for endurance applications at the highest pro racing levels. This revolutionary new compound has been extremely successful with open wheel, closed wheel, sprint and endurance applications. XP24™ has a temperature range of 400°F to 2000°F+ (204°C to 1093°C+). Carbotech™ XP24™ is NOT recommended for use as a daily driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise along with the necessary heat required to work properly.
REAR PADS
Carbotech™ XP10™
When Carbotech™ unleashed the XP10™ to the general public it immediately gathered multiple regional, divisional, and national championships. The XP10™ has a very strong initial bite with a coefficient of friction and rotor friendliness unmatched in the industry. Fade resistance is in excess of 1475°F (801°C). XP10™ still maintains the highly praised release, excellent modulation and rotor friendliness that have made all Carbotech™ compounds so successful. Carbotech™ XP10™ is not recommended as a daily-driven street pad due to possible elevated levels of dust and noise.
what kind of myu / coefficient of friction are they both rated at ?
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Spent a good chunk of time with the owners son + engineering there coming up with the front to rear pad suggestions. Combo seems bizarre on the surface but the results I'm seeing speak for themselves. They found it amusing many of the other mfgs out there suggest same series front plus rear pads no matter the intended use. Suggestions from both EBC and Hawk fell well short of the mark although I did really like the EBC Reds as a street / track day combo and have a good number of club members running them with similar success.
agree with ya on the Reds being a good street pad, track use....well, with more self control than I can muster.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZR
Impressive temp ratings on the fronts, but incomplete spec without friction co-efficients at the various temps.
Usually race pads will eat rotors at low temps, another reason not to run them on the street.
The front rear bias and initial bite leave for some very interesting combos. Most setups mean the rear brakes don't do enough; that's something you hear from Zeckhausen and other brake experts.
Here is an interesting article about this:
http://www.turnfast.com/tech_brakes/brakes_balancing
Not all pads are marked this way. Full-race pads may operate at high temperature ranges outside of the classification range. And some manufacturers use proprietary classifications, such as color-coding the pads or their own numbering schemes.
Friction Coefficient Code Up to 0.15 µ C Over 0.15 µ up to 0.25 µ D Over 0.25 µ up to 0.35 µ E Over 0.35 µ up to 0.45 µ F Over 0.45 µ up to 0.55 µ G Over 0.55 µ H Unclassified Z
Except for the noise and dust, combo I run at track days performs exceptionally well on the street. Originally expected little to no braking cold, it's actually just fine but yes does increase once you warm them up.
so much for this being a tire thread, but....
I find my XP8's manageable on the street, but I think my next setup will be track pads and rotors.
The XP8's make a lot of dust, squeal some times, and when cold they make an awful grinding/marblely sort of noise, like when coming off a highway and coming to a stop at the light.
track/race pads are very abrasive when cold and have a tendency to eat the rotor surfaces; something like 6:1 vs when at operating temperatures.
Pad squeal is brutal, and if you've ever had an "OH SHIT!!!" moment on cold pads....well....that can be costly and really dangerous.
Dedicated rotors and pads for the track will make you faster and save you coin over the long term. 5 track days on my Stoptech rotors and Hawk DTC60s and no appreciable wear on either the pads or the rotors. Used to get less than a day out of rotors and EBC reds; and went slower....
No noticeable wear on the rotors, but the extra heat from these pads have started to crack the rotors (cross-drilled). Will have to replace them this winter.
I run Stoptech slotted rotors from Rock Auto - inexpensive and way more durable than anything else I've found. Make sure you soak them in really hot water with dish soap for about 10 minutes and then dry them thoroughly before installation; then a final brake cleaner spray to get rid of ALL oils and fingerprints etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSN
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Freight and GST will be added if you buy them in Canada. No tax and about half the freight cost if you ship to Niagara Falls or Buffalo. Way cheaper than American Muscle for exactly the same parts.
:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by tulowd
you're a pretty smart guy......I'm sure you'll figure it out ... this comes from rotor suppliers other than just Stoptech.... :) lolQuote:
Originally Posted by RedSN
I run snow tires
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Suki
:highfive:- now that's a real DRIVER
yup it doesn't matter to good drivers what tires are on there .
I'll stick with Lacquer thinners and brakes cleans. There are however co's that have developed soaps specifically intended for washing engine parts n brake rotors. Many of the products one might use to remove contaminants may very well be leaving more behind that matters vs what was there in the first place. While brake cleans does a decent job, you'll find even more on your rag or towel finishing up with thinners.
Please remember that you can’t use just any "under the kitchen counter or bathroom soap" for this purpose. Nearly every hand or dishwashing soap contains lanolin or perfume or worse and these items will leave residues that affect the break in (burnishing) of a new set of pads.
Fair enough the thread drifted into a combo of what tires / what brakes. When you phone CarboTech for pad suggestion, your entire combo + driving style are included in the questions before you'll receive a suggestion.
What my previous Hawk pads did to rotors was close to inhumane, Carbo Tech's not only work dramatically better (for me and a few others here running them), are equally easier on rotors. Hats off to Rob / Ratattack for steering me in their direction. As I'd previously said, even though my pads have no business on the street because of dirt n noise, they are totally doable otherwise. Can only say for sure as when installing new pads, I've driven them on the street for a few days to fully bed.Quote:
Originally Posted by tulowd
The reasoning for the hot water and soap is loosening the embedded oils, especially inside the rotor vanes, since you cant really get in there to scrub. The brake cleaner/thinners will remove whatever remains of the oils and soap elements on the friction surfaces as a final step.Quote:
Originally Posted by ZR