Tim Horton's blow back.

[Ponyryd]

It’s entirely possible that everyone in power is corrupt, but I’d like to believe otherwise.
Unions supposed to protect the worker, Tim’s workers are not unionized but the union still sees it as unfair. That’s my take on it, until proven otherwise.

[ZR]

Nothing takes the mob’s mind off one’s own indefensible and appalling misconduct quite like shaming some other villain.
Ontario Labour Minister Kevin Flynn tried to do just that Monday in a stunning, self-serving farce of a press conference where he threatened, bullied and promised to publicly out Ontario businesses for wrongs they haven’t, and are wholly unlikely, to commit.
A reality check to follow, first the latest news.
Flynn called a press conference Monday in the wake of Premier Kathleen Wynne’s adversarial tweet last week directed at a Cobourg Tim Hortons franchise owned by the children of the donut empire’s billionaire co-founders, who planned to claw back paid meals and other benefits from staff there in response to the Liberals hiking the minimum wage to $14-an-hour this year, and $15 next.
Wynne tweeted how “upset” she was and said if franchise owner Ron Joyce Jr. “wants to pick a fight I urge him to leave his employees out of it. I’m right here,” then publicly called his purported cost-saving plan “the act of a bully.”

Several other Timmies subsequently suggested they might follow Joyce Jr’s lead, and one Tim Hortons in Scarborough allegedly told staff they planned to ban tipping, or would require all tips to go straight into the till, which isn’t allowed under provincial law.
That may have been the straw that motivated Wynne and Flynn to declare war on every miserly miscreant running a business in the province.
“You can’t break the law in the province of Ontario,” Flynn fumed Monday. “You have to pay the minimum wage.”
He suggested “some employers are abandoning the spirit of this legislation, and some may even be doing more than that,” but didn’t bother to elaborate.
“The stories we’ve all heard over the past week have not only been disappointing but, quite frankly, they’ve made the premier, myself and others in this province angry,” he said.
“For some businesses to take it out on their workers, however, is completely unacceptable,” he said. “And it’s simply wrong. It’s the act of bullies that has no place in this province.”
In response to the villainy perceived at Tims and elsewhere, Flynn vowed to hire up to 175 inspectors to crack down on businesses to ensure they implement the Liberal government’s new $14-an-hour minimum wage.
And he promised to publicly shame and name those who violate new labour rules.
Now for the reality check.

• No business is refusing to pay the new minimum wage or suggesting they’ll break the law. They are looking for ways to legally offset what the Canadian Centre for Economic Analysis describes as “a $23-billion cost challenge over two years” for Ontario businesses and an estimate by Ontario’s Financial Accountability Office that 50,000 people could lose their jobs here if the accelerated minimum wage hikes proceeds.
• The Coburg Tim Hortons isn’t required under Ontario law to pay staff during lunch breaks. They had been doing so and told staff they were ending that benefit and others to offset the new wage hikes. The suggestion this violates the “spirit” of the new minimum wage is ridiculous, self-serving hyperbole from a government that’s had 14 years to help low-income workers and decided, virtually months before an election, to force businesses to help bankroll their abysmal election prospects.
• One Tim Hortons franchise made a dumb proposal to put tips in the till, probably because they didn’t know any better. This sort of thing happens routinely and is routinely dealt with by the labour ministry. It’s not a conspiracy.
• If Flynn makes good on his ridiculous threat to use up to 175 inspectors (that may include 100 new ones) it would by our rough, conservative calculation easily cost the government $10.5 million or more annually (175 x a modest $60,000 annual civil service salary) to police, among other things, its minimum wage law.

Wynne and Flynn are the real villains in this tedious tale, yet another example of a politically and morally bankrupt Liberal government resorting to bullying, the politics of division and virtue shaming to save their own skins.
Shame on them.
And shame on you if you let them fool you.

[92redragtop]

It’s entirely possible that everyone in power is corrupt, but I’d like to believe otherwise.
Unions supposed to protect the worker, Tim’s workers are not unionized but the union still sees it as unfair. That’s my take on it, until proven otherwise.

There is also opportunity for more union revenue (dues) as a result of this which is really what the modern union business model is about.

[Ponyryd]

There is also opportunity for more union revenue (dues) as a result of this which is really what the modern union business model is about.

Pretty sure they’re more about taking care of their workers, other than the just making money, it is a business though so yes they do need to make money at the end of the day.
Sure they will make more money, if businesses actually stay open and have union employees, but most minimum wage people aren’t in a union. But it may go the other way and cause closures instead, especially big places, which will likely go overseas and put many out of a job.

[83 5.0]

Pretty rich that Wynne and her mafia calling Timmies owners bullies.

[Quicksilver]

All there people protesting individual Timmie's outlets simply don't understand the owner's frustration.
An individual buys a Timmie's franchise. That franchise costs approximately $50,000. by itself. Then, the purchaser has to have approximately $500,000 to $1,000,000 in cash or credit to get their store up and running.
Out of the revenues, they have to pay their franchise fees, which includes approximately 5% of gross revenue, plus another percentage for advertising. After this, they have to service their debt. If they don't pay themselves back their out of pocket investment, as well as paying back the inevitable business loan, then all they have done is effectively bought themselves a job.

Then, according to their franchise contract, they have to buy ALL of their food, paperwork, cups, spoons, packaging, posters, uniforms, EVERYTHING, from Tim Hortons, the franchisor, at whatever prices Timmie's sets.
After all this, they have to obey copious numbers of rules and regulations to put out a consistent quality of product.
All of this costs a certain amount of money. Nothing wrong with rules and procedures. After all, that;s why one buys a franchise: to learn all the tried and true ways to run a business profitably.
On top of all this, the main franchisor sets the prices they can sell at. Selling for more, or selling product not approved by the franchisor can result the loss of their franchise.

Now to the gist of the matter. The minimum wage has gone up by $2.40/hr. On top of that there is 4% vacation pay; another 4% holiday pay (Christmas, New years, etc), employer's share of CPP, EI, medical benefits, uniforms, and whatnot. This adds up to more than 20% of base pay, so that $2.40 is really about $2.90.

The average Timmies has 35 employees, although they don't always work at the same time. I have gone into many Timmie's and counted as many as 8 people behind the counter, with probably 3 or 4 more behind closed doors.
For argument's sake, lets just say (arbitrarily, and just for simplicity), that the store has a minimum of 5 employees working at any one time. If the store is open 24/7, then that is 840 working manhours every week. At almost $3.00/hr increase that comes to $2520/wk, or $131,040 a year in extra wages.
This is a very basic model, and if anything probably way under reality, but please tell me, Mr. protester, and especially Ms Wynne. How the hell is a franchisee, who cannot control what he pays for his product, and who's control of prices is completely out of his hands, cover $130,000 A YEAR in extra expense? That is likely more than his annual gross profit.
No wonder businesses are panicking about their futures, and considering labour cutbacks, and not paying for breaks, lunches, uniforms and such.
Going back to one of my recent threads, this is a major reason why I use subcontractors and pay piecework for my labour. And for those who are interested, my rates come out to more or less triple the minimum wage.

[Mellow Yellow]

All there people protesting individual Timmie's outlets simply don't understand the owner's frustration.
An individual buys a Timmie's franchise. That franchise costs approximately $50,000. by itself. Then, the purchaser has to have approximately $500,000 to $1,000,000 in cash or credit to get their store up and running.
Out of the revenues, they have to pay their franchise fees, which includes approximately 5% of gross revenue, plus another percentage for advertising. After this, they have to service their debt. If they don't pay themselves back their out of pocket investment, as well as paying back the inevitable business loan, then all they have done is effectively bought themselves a job.

Then, according to their franchise contract, they have to buy ALL of their food, paperwork, cups, spoons, packaging, posters, uniforms, EVERYTHING, from Tim Hortons, the franchisor, at whatever prices Timmie's sets.
After all this, they have to obey copious numbers of rules and regulations to put out a consistent quality of product.
All of this costs a certain amount of money. Nothing wrong with rules and procedures. After all, that;s why one buys a franchise: to learn all the tried and true ways to run a business profitably.
On top of all this, the main franchisor sets the prices they can sell at. Selling for more, or selling product not approved by the franchisor can result the loss of their franchise.

Now to the gist of the matter. The minimum wage has gone up by $2.40/hr. On top of that there is 4% vacation pay; another 4% holiday pay (Christmas, New years, etc), employer's share of CPP, EI, medical benefits, uniforms, and whatnot. This adds up to more than 20% of base pay, so that $2.40 is really about $2.90.

The average Timmies has 35 employees, although they don't always work at the same time. I have gone into many Timmie's and counted as many as 8 people behind the counter, with probably 3 or 4 more behind closed doors.
For argument's sake, lets just say (arbitrarily, and just for simplicity), that the store has a minimum of 5 employees working at any one time. If the store is open 24/7, then that is 840 working manhours every week. At almost $3.00/hr increase that comes to $2520/wk, or $131,040 a year in extra wages.
This is a very basic model, and if anything probably way under reality, but please tell me, Mr. protester, and especially Ms Wynne. How the hell is a franchisee, who cannot control what he pays for his product, and who's control of prices is completely out of his hands, cover $130,000 A YEAR in extra expense? That is likely more than his annual gross profit.
No wonder businesses are panicking about their futures, and considering labour cutbacks, and not paying for breaks, lunches, uniforms and such.
Going back to one of my recent threads, this is a major reason why I use subcontractors and pay piecework for my labour. And for those who are interested, my rates come out to more or less triple the minimum wage.

To consider this further....if (and I have no idea) the franchisee is able to make $1 per average cup of coffee, that means that the the store has to sell an additional 360 cups of coffee in a day just to cover this extra cost.

If they make $0.50 per cup then they now have to sell 720 extra cups of coffee each and every day. I have a feeling they make even less than that so do the math.

[92redragtop]

All there people protesting individual Timmie's outlets simply don't understand the owner's frustration.
An individual buys a Timmie's franchise. That franchise costs approximately $50,000. by itself. Then, the purchaser has to have approximately $500,000 to $1,000,000 in cash or credit to get their store up and running.
Out of the revenues, they have to pay their franchise fees, which includes approximately 5% of gross revenue, plus another percentage for advertising. After this, they have to service their debt. If they don't pay themselves back their out of pocket investment, as well as paying back the inevitable business loan, then all they have done is effectively bought themselves a job.

Then, according to their franchise contract, they have to buy ALL of their food, paperwork, cups, spoons, packaging, posters, uniforms, EVERYTHING, from Tim Hortons, the franchisor, at whatever prices Timmie's sets.
After all this, they have to obey copious numbers of rules and regulations to put out a consistent quality of product.
All of this costs a certain amount of money. Nothing wrong with rules and procedures. After all, that;s why one buys a franchise: to learn all the tried and true ways to run a business profitably.
On top of all this, the main franchisor sets the prices they can sell at. Selling for more, or selling product not approved by the franchisor can result the loss of their franchise.

Now to the gist of the matter. The minimum wage has gone up by $2.40/hr. On top of that there is 4% vacation pay; another 4% holiday pay (Christmas, New years, etc), employer's share of CPP, EI, medical benefits, uniforms, and whatnot. This adds up to more than 20% of base pay, so that $2.40 is really about $2.90.

The average Timmies has 35 employees, although they don't always work at the same time. I have gone into many Timmie's and counted as many as 8 people behind the counter, with probably 3 or 4 more behind closed doors.
For argument's sake, lets just say (arbitrarily, and just for simplicity), that the store has a minimum of 5 employees working at any one time. If the store is open 24/7, then that is 840 working manhours every week. At almost $3.00/hr increase that comes to $2520/wk, or $131,040 a year in extra wages.
This is a very basic model, and if anything probably way under reality, but please tell me, Mr. protester, and especially Ms Wynne. How the hell is a franchisee, who cannot control what he pays for his product, and who's control of prices is completely out of his hands, cover $130,000 A YEAR in extra expense? That is likely more than his annual gross profit.
No wonder businesses are panicking about their futures, and considering labour cutbacks, and not paying for breaks, lunches, uniforms and such.
Going back to one of my recent threads, this is a major reason why I use subcontractors and pay piecework for my labour. And for those who are interested, my rates come out to more or less triple the minimum wage.

I believe Tim Horton franchises cost a lot more than $50K plus the cost of the facility/equipment so the "small" business owners are in debt for a while after they launch, and have to pay ongoing franchise royalties and marketing fees so the 6-figure increase on the average location is a hard pill to swallow.

[5.4MarkVIII]

I believe Tim Horton franchises cost a lot more than $50K plus the cost of the facility/equipment so the "small" business owners are in debt for a while after they launch, and have to pay ongoing franchise royalties and marketing fees so the 6-figure increase on the average location is a hard pill to swallow.

Yeah one artical the other day said 1.5 mill and another 500k in liquid assets to open a Tim’s.

[92redragtop]

Yeah one artical the other day said 1.5 mill and another 500k in liquid assets to open a Tim’s.

That sounds about right especially for high demand areas plus they're paying a royalty percentage from each sale (essentially) to the franchisor.