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Thread: Post whatever is on your mind!!

  1. #9621
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.4MarkVIII View Post
    Do you watch the news ever?

    Try google. Not hard.
    I know the answer....and it is not black and white as to the reason for him missing the meeting (sub-meaning is embedded in what happened afterwards) which is what the initial headlines on day of focused on - was trying to understand your opinion on it (the meeting itself) and what happened afterwards, and whether that supports or contradicts the reason for missing the meeting (Canadian trade with Asia as well as US is also part of the reason). If you don't want to share that is fine.

  2. #9622
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    Dosnt matter what happened afterword he scedualed a meeting and then decided not to show up. That’s unprofessional.

    I’m my job if I set a time with a customer then don’t bother to show up I loose the customer.

    Is it too much to ask our PM to act like a professional?

  3. #9623
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.4MarkVIII View Post
    Dosnt matter what happened afterword he scedualed a meeting and then decided not to show up. That’s unprofessional.

    I’m my job if I set a time with a customer then don’t bother to show up I loose the customer.

    Is it too much to ask our PM to act like a professional?
    OK thanks - you are correct in that he missed the meeting claiming a scheduling snafu because he was meeting with Abe and that meeting was extended and missed this other meeting as a result. Subsequent information/decisions indicated that attending the meeting could have been worse for Canada, Canadian businesses, and Canadian taxpayers (as well as US-Canada relations due to Trump's past decision - by the way, we export more to the US than Asia). Could he have attended and said no - maybe but that could have been diplomatically worse if the other members were forcing Canada into a corner. My guess is Harper would have pulled a similar stalling tactic to buy time to come back with a new proposal rebuttal that puts Canada in a stronger bargaining position.

  4. #9624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Legwound View Post
    Sounds like something worth learning more about. Got a link or any info on the issues on the table?
    No specific link but it started last year during and after the US election campaign (look into history of TPP and review the APEC headlines from this week in terms of how events unfolded).

    Coles notes: Canada and US sign on to TPP; lots of criticism and opposition to TPP as it could disadvantage Canadian companies (does give access to Asian markets but not open borders/markets like NAFTA). Note that China was against/out of TPP from the beginning as it would reduce their power in the AP region; Trump pulls out of TPP because he said it would disadvantage the US; Canada remained in but walking a fine line since signing on it was originally written could piss off the Americans and hurt our trade relations with them even more - they are our biggest export market currently; Trump pulling out of TPP actually worked in China's favour as it put them back in the driver's seat on any regional free trade deals (we have a trade deficit with China today); the meeting in Vietnam was about TPP and AP leaders were looking to get Canada to agree to a series of conditions in the deal negotiations; Trump's praise of an autocratic Communist leader in China this week threw a wildcard into the mix as any human rights or other trade leverage that EU and Canada had in the negotiations have to be re-visited and re-strategized as the game rules have changed (it's all very Sun Tzu) before coming back to the table; Trudeau did have a meeting with Abe (a bigger trading partner than Vietnam, and that Canada wants to be bigger in terms of our exports to them) before the Vietnam meeting, and the Abe meeting was extended so conflicted - a little convenient when you step back and view the whole chess board but a convenient excuse to buy time. If you only look at the one headline from the day Canada "missed" the meeting it looks bad but if you view it as part of everything in the TPP lifecycle (and Trump in China this week) it makes more sense.

    So on the one hand you have Canada and US/China/Japan while on the other hand you have Canada and Vietnam/SK/Australia/etc - had to choose one in the short term to maintain and one to let slip and repair afterwards. The trade team chose to protect the first set of relationships and strategically beg forgiveness with the second.

    If you go back and read up on TPP which still doesn't gave Canada equal reciprocal access to all AP markets, eg. we are historically disadvantaged with access to SK and will remain so under TPP although a little better than today; we're also disadvantaged with China/Japan market access but if China takes a front seat with an AP free trade bloc then you can see Chinese growth go up from 5-6% to a higher number in a billion plus consumer market (started under Harper and adopted by Trudeau but the game has changed globally since then because NAFTA is up for negotiation, Brexit happened, CETA happened, etc) and the evolution since 2015 to this past week that should get you up to date.

    Sorry for the data dump - I just typed some of what was in my head on this topic.

  5. #9625
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    Can you provide more articals on the subject?

    I don’t buy a meeting going a half hour over shedual as an excuse to cancel an entire meeting. (One that could have taken hours)

    Second. According to Australian news sources when this story broke there was no notification that Trudeau informed anyone. They were all waiting for him and he never showed.

    Third. There was no statement from Turdeau’s Team untill the following day. (Unless I missed it but that’s the way main stream news was reporting it.)

    4. A quick search now comes up with mostly huffinton post articles making excuses.

    5. Again any reputable business person will tell out its bad form to not show up. I’d rather see a leader with the balls to stand and fight for whats best for our country than one that hides behind childish tactics.

    6. Unless you can provide a time that Harper actually didn’t show up to a meeting without notice, you are just making assumptions with no basis.

    7. Lol yeah all Trumps fault.

  6. #9626
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92redragtop View Post
    Nope - take a look at Harper's visit to Asia in 2012 - he did the same back then - visited a memorial site and observed the occasion from there. There wasn't any "bitching" back then from either side.
    I’d suggest typing

    “Harper Asia 2012”

    Into google. Plenty of criticism for pretty much everything he did there. Remember the pandas?

  7. #9627
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    Toronto Mustang Club.

  8. #9628
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.4MarkVIII View Post
    Can you provide more articals on the subject?

    I don’t buy a meeting going a half hour over shedual as an excuse to cancel an entire meeting. (One that could have taken hours)

    Second. According to Australian news sources when this story broke there was no notification that Trudeau informed anyone. They were all waiting for him and he never showed.

    Third. There was no statement from Turdeau’s Team untill the following day. (Unless I missed it but that’s the way main stream news was reporting it.)

    4. A quick search now comes up with mostly huffinton post articles making excuses.

    5. Again any reputable business person will tell out its bad form to not show up. I’d rather see a leader with the balls to stand and fight for whats best for our country than one that hides behind childish tactics.

    6. Unless you can provide a time that Harper actually didn’t show up to a meeting without notice, you are just making assumptions with no basis.

    7. Lol yeah all Trumps fault.
    I've been following TPP for about two years now so don't have specific links now but you can easily find them from searching business and newspaper sites. National Post, G&M, CBC, etc all reported on last week's events specifically so you can check those sites. Not sure why Huff Post stories are coming up for you - those don't appear in my search.

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ent-japans-abe

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36931639/


    This one is an opinion piece (so take it in that context) from the Report on Business section but it looks like it outlines some of the timeline I described yesterday:

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...ticle36931537/

    No deal is better than a bad deal: Why Canada won the TPP stand-off

    MICHAEL GEIST
    SPECIAL TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
    1 DAY AGO
    NOVEMBER 11, 2017
    The end-game in trade negotiations always generates more than its fair share of drama and this week's effort to rework the Trans Pacific Partnership without the United States was no different. Canada was squarely in the spotlight with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a no-show at a ministerial meeting that was attributed to a scheduling error, but had the hallmarks of gamesmanship designed to demonstrate a willingness to walk away from the deal.

    The result was a major win for Canada as the government leveraged its position as the second-largest economy left in the TPP to extract significant concessions on intellectual property, culture, and the auto sector. Indeed, despite pressure to cave on key demands from the Japanese and Australian governments, Canada stood its ground and is helping to craft a trade deal that better reflects a balanced approach on challenging policy issues.

    In advance of the meetings in Vietnam, Mr. Trudeau had signalled that Canada would not be rushed into a deal simply for the sake of an agreement. With pressure on multiple trade fronts and misgivings about the terms of a trade deal that was concluded by the Conservatives weeks before the 2015 federal election, a few tweaks might not be enough to salvage the flawed TPP. The decision to go slow and seek further negotiations may draw the ire of a few governments anxious to conclude the TPP, but it made both strategic and policy sense.

    From a strategic perspective, Canada was a late entrant to the TPP negotiations, arriving well after the basic framework had been established and several of the chapters concluded. In fact, the TPP only became a trade priority after the Harper government identified the risks of remaining on the outside of a deal that included the United States. The decision to participate was primarily defensive with some studies projecting only marginal economic gains.

    With the United States out of the TPP, Canada's primary strategic objective was gone. That left a deal that offered some benefits for increased trade with Japan, but little else, given that Canada already has free-trade agreements with several other TPP countries such as Mexico, Chile, and Peru.

    Further, the TPP never fully reflected some of the Liberal government's trade priorities, including adequately addressing labour regulation and indigenous rights. Addressing those issues to advance the goal of a "progressive" agreement would require far more than some modest drafting changes.

    The contentious North American free-trade agreement renegotiation has upended Canada's trade priorities since the United States remains our dominant trading partner. The overlap between NAFTA and the TPP represents a particularly thorny issue. For example, auto sector provisions have emerged as some of the most challenging of the NAFTA talks, threatening to dramatically change longstanding rule of origin regulations that have served as the basis for a critical North America-wide industry. To hamstring the Canadian NAFTA position on the automotive sector in order to reach a TPP agreement would have swapped short-term gain for long-term pain. As a result, Canada successfully argued that the issue should remain subject to further negotiation.

    The trouble with the TPP11 – dubbed this for the 11 countries that remain after the United States dropped out following the election of President Donald Trump – extended beyond strategic shortcomings as the substantive provisions in several areas were widely viewed as coming at a significant domestic cost. This is particularly true for the intellectual property chapter, where the original agreement included patent provisions that would likely increase the cost of pharmaceuticals and copyright rules that would lock down content for decades through the extension of the term of copyright beyond the standard established at international law.

    The IP chapter largely reflected U.S. demands and with its exit from the TPP, an overhaul that more closely aligns the agreement to international standards was needed. Canada succeeded on that front too with an agreement to suspend most of the controversial IP provisions including those involving copyright term, patent extension, biologics protection, Internet provider liability, and digital lock rules.

    The TPP was also an outlier on cultural policy, departing from the longstanding Canadian approach by omitting a full cultural exception and creating unprecedented restrictions on policies to support the creation of Canadian content. The absence of robust cultural protections in the TPP had been a simmering issue for months. With the issue becoming increasingly sensitive in light of the recent release of a digital cultural policy, acquiescing to a trade agreement that raised alarm bells within the cultural community would have bad policy and bad politics, leaving Canada to successfully argue for further discussions on a cultural exemption.

    Global Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland and International Trade Minister François-Philippe Champagne inherited a trade policy that seemed to prioritize any deal over a good deal. Agreement on the TPP11 (now rebranded the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans Pacific Partnership) remains a possibility, but standing firm on Canadian interests with a willingness to walk away rightly recognized that no deal is better than a bad one.






    I'll stop here so as to not drag this out as there will always be differences in opinion.
    Last edited by 92redragtop; 11-13-2017 at 11:51 AM.

  9. #9629
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5.4MarkVIII View Post
    I’d suggest typing

    “Harper Asia 2012”

    Into google. Plenty of criticism for pretty much everything he did there. Remember the pandas?
    I was specifically referring to him not being in Canada for Rememberance Day activities in 2012 - just trying to compare apples to apples to keep the comment on point relative to Legwound's post and subsequent responses.

  10. #9630
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92redragtop View Post
    I've been following TPP for about two years now so don't have specific links now but you can easily find them from searching business and newspaper sites. National Post, G&M, CBC, etc all reported on last week's events specifically so you can check those sites. Not sure why Huff Post stories are coming up for you - those don't appear in my search.

    http://business.financialpost.com/ne...ent-japans-abe

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/new...ticle36931639/


    This one is an opinion piece (so take it in that context) from the Report on Business section but it looks like it outlines some of the timeline I described yesterday:

    https://beta.theglobeandmail.com/rep...ticle36931537/

    No deal is better than a bad deal: Why Canada won the TPP stand-off

    MICHAEL GEIST
    SPECIAL TO THE GLOBE AND MAIL
    1 DAY AGO
    NOVEMBER 11, 2017
    The end-game in trade negotiations always generates more than its fair share of drama and this week's effort to rework the Trans Pacific Partnership without the United States was no different. Canada was squarely in the spotlight with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau a no-show at a ministerial meeting that was attributed to a scheduling error, but had the hallmarks of gamesmanship designed to demonstrate a willingness to walk away from the deal.

    The result was a major win for Canada as the government leveraged its position as the second-largest economy left in the TPP to extract significant concessions on intellectual property, culture, and the auto sector. Indeed, despite pressure to cave on key demands from the Japanese and Australian governments, Canada stood its ground and is helping to craft a trade deal that better reflects a balanced approach on challenging policy issues.

    In advance of the meetings in Vietnam, Mr. Trudeau had signalled that Canada would not be rushed into a deal simply for the sake of an agreement. With pressure on multiple trade fronts and misgivings about the terms of a trade deal that was concluded by the Conservatives weeks before the 2015 federal election, a few tweaks might not be enough to salvage the flawed TPP. The decision to go slow and seek further negotiations may draw the ire of a few governments anxious to conclude the TPP, but it made both strategic and policy sense.

    From a strategic perspective, Canada was a late entrant to the TPP negotiations, arriving well after the basic framework had been established and several of the chapters concluded. In fact, the TPP only became a trade priority after the Harper government identified the risks of remaining on the outside of a deal that included the United States. The decision to participate was primarily defensive with some studies projecting only marginal economic gains.

    With the United States out of the TPP, Canada's primary strategic objective was gone. That left a deal that offered some benefits for increased trade with Japan, but little else, given that Canada already has free-trade agreements with several other TPP countries such as Mexico, Chile, and Peru.

    Further, the TPP never fully reflected some of the Liberal government's trade priorities, including adequately addressing labour regulation and indigenous rights. Addressing those issues to advance the goal of a "progressive" agreement would require far more than some modest drafting changes.

    The contentious North American free-trade agreement renegotiation has upended Canada's trade priorities since the United States remains our dominant trading partner. The overlap between NAFTA and the TPP represents a particularly thorny issue. For example, auto sector provisions have emerged as some of the most challenging of the NAFTA talks, threatening to dramatically change longstanding rule of origin regulations that have served as the basis for a critical North America-wide industry. To hamstring the Canadian NAFTA position on the automotive sector in order to reach a TPP agreement would have swapped short-term gain for long-term pain. As a result, Canada successfully argued that the issue should remain subject to further negotiation.

    The trouble with the TPP11 – dubbed this for the 11 countries that remain after the United States dropped out following the election of President Donald Trump – extended beyond strategic shortcomings as the substantive provisions in several areas were widely viewed as coming at a significant domestic cost. This is particularly true for the intellectual property chapter, where the original agreement included patent provisions that would likely increase the cost of pharmaceuticals and copyright rules that would lock down content for decades through the extension of the term of copyright beyond the standard established at international law.

    The IP chapter largely reflected U.S. demands and with its exit from the TPP, an overhaul that more closely aligns the agreement to international standards was needed. Canada succeeded on that front too with an agreement to suspend most of the controversial IP provisions including those involving copyright term, patent extension, biologics protection, Internet provider liability, and digital lock rules.

    The TPP was also an outlier on cultural policy, departing from the longstanding Canadian approach by omitting a full cultural exception and creating unprecedented restrictions on policies to support the creation of Canadian content. The absence of robust cultural protections in the TPP had been a simmering issue for months. With the issue becoming increasingly sensitive in light of the recent release of a digital cultural policy, acquiescing to a trade agreement that raised alarm bells within the cultural community would have bad policy and bad politics, leaving Canada to successfully argue for further discussions on a cultural exemption.

    Global Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland and International Trade Minister François-Philippe Champagne inherited a trade policy that seemed to prioritize any deal over a good deal. Agreement on the TPP11 (now rebranded the Comprehensive and Progressive Agreement for Trans Pacific Partnership) remains a possibility, but standing firm on Canadian interests with a willingness to walk away rightly recognized that no deal is better than a bad one.






    I'll stop here so as to not drag this out as there will always be differences in opinion.
    If the end result is a deal that’s better for us then fine.
    Just not very professional especially coming from a government that was overly critical of our last leaders reputation with the rest of the world.

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