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Thread: Boeing 737 MAX8

  1. #1
    nom nom nom RedSN's Avatar
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    Boeing 737 MAX8

    Quote Originally Posted by 92redragtop View Post
    Anyone flying on a Boeing 737 MAX8 soon? Grounded in Canada now too.
    Figured it deserved it's own thread. Surprised it took Canada so long to ground these aircraft. Should have been grounded immediately in my opinion. Two planes falling out of the sky in similar fashion within months of each other suggests more than just a coincidence.

    "There are -- and I hasten to say not conclusive -- but there are similarities" between the Ethiopian Airlines flight profile and that of a Lion Air flight involving the same aircraft that crashed off the Indonesian coast in October, [Marc Garneau] said. Those similarities, he said, "exceed a certain threshold in our minds with respect to the possible cause of what happened in Ethiopia. This is not conclusive, but it is something that points possibly in that direction, and at this point we feel that threshold has been crossed. The "safety notice" means none of the aircraft can fly into, out of, or over Canada, he added: "I will not hesitate to take swift action should we discover any additional safety issues."
    I get that one needs to reserve caution when making a statement, but this seems excessively so. Are we trying to not hurt Boeing's feelings?
    It's usually better to wait for facts rather than jump to conclusions, but in this case I think ground the planes while you get the facts. Seems like a no-brainer.
    Ground them if for no other reason than to avoid hysteria at the gate as people refuse to get on the plane.
    -Don____________

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    Club Supporter Laffs's Avatar
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    Agree on all counts. There are coincidences and then there are correlations. Such a new aircraft with two similar incidents resulting in massive loss of life requires an depth assessment of the craft. Honestly with the rate at which the Max 8 was sold and based on the major carrier discounts from MSRP wouldn't shock me to find there were faults missed that more indepth testing would have caught or overlooked flaws.

    Like you said, seemed to more emphasis put on protecting a companies share price vs protecting further incident. Also when the average populous begins to know and questions the make model and sub model of their air transit, there's an issue.
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  3. #3
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    heard some #s this morning

    there's like 300ish of these new Max 8 planes flying around the world....2 have crashed in the last 6 months

    there's like 48,000 planes in the sky of older but comparable models

    ah yeah...ground them and figure out wtf is wrong

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    I believe the MAX8 is more automated than its predecessor the 737-800 and even turning off auto-pilot requires additional steps versus the older models. They were pointing to pilot error and training on the new planes with the Lion Air crash, and apparently Boeing issued updated training guidelines after that crash - so with a second crash, is it pilot error/training issue or hardware/software issue? We have a few clients with this model in their fleet so were reaching out yesterday to see what their plans were and how it would affect them (one grounded their MAX8's proactively yesterday).

    Boeing has political ties in North America so curious to see what happens next in the US.

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    nom nom nom RedSN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 92redragtop View Post
    ...is it pilot error/training issue or hardware/software issue?
    May very well be pilot error/training, but if the hardware/software is doing something that causes the pilot to make an error, then that also seems to be a flaw.
    Like if the plane does something, and your instinctive pilot skills say you should do this, but that's the exact wrong thing to do on this plane ....training or not, that's a problem.
    -Don____________

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    Quote Originally Posted by RedSN View Post
    May very well be pilot error/training, but if the hardware/software is doing something that causes the pilot to make an error, then that also seems to be a flaw.
    Like if the plane does something, and your instinctive pilot skills say you should do this, but that's the exact wrong thing to do on this plane ....training or not, that's a problem.
    Agreed.

    This is CNN so take with a grain of salt.

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/13/us/pi...max/index.html

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    In November, after the Lion Air crash, Boeing issued an "Operations Manual Bulletin" advising airline operators how to address erroneous cockpit readings. It pointed airlines "to existing flight crew procedures to address circumstances where there is erroneous input from an AOA sensor," a Boeing statement said. The FAA later issued its own emergency airworthiness directive that advised pilots about how to respond to similar problems.
    I would rather they fix the erroneous sensor.
    -Don____________

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    Quote Originally Posted by Legwound View Post
    In this case I don't see why CNN would have an agenda either way.

    I wonder if there is a big competition for sales to a particular client(s) between Boeing and Airbus going on right now.

    My guess will be either pilot error and/or maintenance deficiencies.
    Not sure about agenda but they may be too hasty to break some aspect of the unfolding story first.

    The FAA has grounded this aircraft model now as well.

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    I don't know much about planes but in this modern time I would look to software - in the trucking industry with high emission expectations mandated by the gov. Brand new trucks have a gazillion sensors and sensitivity to emissions and are D rating and shutting down in their tracks. Many times on the open road. The new systems also require very expensive routine emissions maintenance that usually get push aside or not done due to urgency and to reduce down time - I could believe it to software
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    Wouldn't be surprised it's software or even Pilot error at this point.
    AC has 24 in it's fleet and WJ has 13. The bigger disruption is they aren't even allowed in Canadian airspace at this point.
    Timing couldn't be worse with March Break in full swing.
    Canada really didn't have a choice as most other countries flying the Max are grounding them.
    The public outcry wouldn't be worth the headache. Safety should always be first.

    EDIT: Trump has just grounded the max in the US as well. (74 jets)

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