(Possible) HID Glare Solution

[SteveEH]

Here is the 13/14 Mustang LED Fog lights retrofitted into my 05, and while they are wide, they don't throw the light, like my high beams do. Reason I went with these, is because I got them cheap, and they have a decent cutoff on them, so they didn't blind so many drivers on the road. This was before I aimed them, and tinted them yellow.

[Harbinger]

Here is the 13/14 Mustang LED Fog lights retrofitted into my 05, and while they are wide, they don't throw the light, like my high beams do. Reason I went with these, is because I got them cheap, and they have a decent cutoff on them, so they didn't blind so many drivers on the road. This was before I aimed them, and tinted them yellow.

Are the led fog lights in projector housings?

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[tulowd]

Fog lights are designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, thus they are mounted low on the vehicle.
Regular headlights and high beams have a different design criteria and purpose, that's why they are mounted higher up.
Light from above is less blinding than from below, shining up. Think about being in the audience instead of onstage, lol.

This means in all cases the reflectors, housings, lenses and locations on the car are designed to work with a certain lamp/bulb/lightsource in order to produce the beam spread and focal point(s) required. Changing a couple of things and pretending to suddenly become a lighting designer is funny; but that is how the "aftermarket" lighting business presents itself in most cases. Having said that, lots of OEM lights are a fail, which is really disappointing since it is a two way safety issue. (vehicle and oncoming)

I agree with utilizing high end halogen or zenon ( which run cooler) lamps that are designed to work within that particular housing; easy upgrade that works.

When retrofitting HID or LED, I would doubt they can be optimized, since the compromise is fitting them into an existing housing, with a shape and reflector design that came from a halogen application. Whatever setup is installed, the housing also needs to be able to dissipate whatever (excess) heat is now created. Running HID's or LED"s at higher than designed temperatures will shorten their life span (obviously) and can/may also change the colour rendering and the light output.

Human vision is drawn to light, we also do not perceive all visible light at the same intensity - we are more sensitive to light at 5000k(blue) to 6500k (daylight) as a survival mechanism. This is why parking garages typically use 5000k coloured lamps; less wattage, higher perceived light levels. Similar to our hearing, which is most sensitive at around 1kHz; somewhere around the sound of a crying baby.

There were some good technical papers floating around about this topic - either Audi or Hella (the lighting mfr) produced them a couple of years ago when they were investigating LED high beams that would shut off some of the array in order to protect oncoming traffic from glare; also the moving headlights were discussed.

Very interesting topic, typically with a lack of real knowledge floating around the car hobby.

[Harbinger]

Fog lights are designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, thus they are mounted low on the vehicle.
Regular headlights and high beams have a different design criteria and purpose, that's why they are mounted higher up.
Light from above is less blinding than from below, shining up. Think about being in the audience instead of onstage, lol.

This means in all cases the reflectors, housings, lenses and locations on the car are designed to work with a certain lamp/bulb/lightsource in order to produce the beam spread and focal point(s) required. Changing a couple of things and pretending to suddenly become a lighting designer is funny; but that is how the "aftermarket" lighting business presents itself in most cases. Having said that, lots of OEM lights are a fail, which is really disappointing since it is a two way safety issue. (vehicle and oncoming)

I agree with utilizing high end halogen or zenon ( which run cooler) lamps that are designed to work within that particular housing; easy upgrade that works.

When retrofitting HID or LED, I would doubt they can be optimized, since the compromise is fitting them into an existing housing, with a shape and reflector design that came from a halogen application. Whatever setup is installed, the housing also needs to be able to dissipate whatever (excess) heat is now created. Running HID's or LED"s at higher than designed temperatures will shorten their life span (obviously) and can/may also change the colour rendering and the light output.

I understand what you're saying but I'd like to think there is a way to optimize hid bulbs.

For example I have the 35watt kit 4300k 800 bulb style for my fog lights. It's possible that I can rig the bulb to concentrate light more to the front in the hopes of helping me see in the countryside. Since its fog lights I have more control when I need to turn it off so they don't blind others. But I still want to experiment in trying to make it them safer. Worst case, I take the darn things off.

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[SteveEH]

Well said Tulowd, Most housings that can use a retrofit can dissipate heat pretty good, that is why most headlights have vents on them, to allow heat and moisture out, and not let anything in. I do also agree that most OEM systems to fail when it comes to lighting output, but once tuned, can be very good, some of the best projectors come on some higher end cars, but not all higher end cars have good projectors, just a few.

Harbringer, the fog lights are projected so they create a cutoff, while they are not as sharp as a HID Retrofit, they still blind less then regular fog lights, I loved them for the amount of times I actually used them. The best way to optimize HID bulbs is to project them down the road using a HID projector, instead of trying to come up with solutions to optimize them in Halogen/Reflector housings. There are some headlights out there that can project HID bulbs using a reflector housing, but still glare, just not as bad as PnP kits, for example, the ones often seen on the 05-09 GT/CS, Bullitt, Saleen, and GT500s use a reflector based HID system.

[Harbinger]

Well said Tulowd, Most housings that can use a retrofit can dissipate heat pretty good, that is why most headlights have vents on them, to allow heat and moisture out, and not let anything in. I do also agree that most OEM systems to fail when it comes to lighting output, but once tuned, can be very good, some of the best projectors come on some higher end cars, but not all higher end cars have good projectors, just a few.

Harbringer, the fog lights are projected so they create a cutoff, while they are not as sharp as a HID Retrofit, they still blind less then regular fog lights, I loved them for the amount of times I actually used them. The best way to optimize HID bulbs is to project them down the road using a HID projector, instead of trying to come up with solutions to optimize them in Halogen/Reflector housings. There are some headlights out there that can project HID bulbs using a reflector housing, but still glare, just not as bad as PnP kits, for example, the ones often seen on the 05-09 GT/CS, Bullitt, Saleen, and GT500s use a reflector based HID system.

Well said Tulowd, Most housings that can use a retrofit can dissipate heat pretty good, that is why most headlights have vents on them, to allow heat and moisture out, and not let anything in. I do also agree that most OEM systems to fail when it comes to lighting output, but once tuned, can be very good, some of the best projectors come on some higher end cars, but not all higher end cars have good projectors, just a few.

Harbringer, the fog lights are projected so they create a cutoff, while they are not as sharp as a HID Retrofit, they still blind less then regular fog lights, I loved them for the amount of times I actually used them. The best way to optimize HID bulbs is to project them down the road using a HID projector, instead of trying to come up with solutions to optimize them in Halogen/Reflector housings. There are some headlights out there that can project HID bulbs using a reflector housing, but still glare, just not as bad as PnP kits, for example, the ones often seen on the 05-09 GT/CS, Bullitt, Saleen, and GT500s use a reflector based HID system.

What about these?

[SteveEH]

What about these?

Personally, I will never buy projectors off ebay, for the sole reason, they suck. to be honest, they probably would be worst then the current fog lights you have.

[RedSN]

Fog lights are designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, thus they are mounted low on the vehicle.

You forgot: ...designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, in the fog, at night.

I've never understood peoples fascination with driving all the time with the fog lights on. During all my time driving, I can count the number of times on one hand that I have had to turn the fog light on.

Besides ....fog lights are where the brake cooling ducts go

[tulowd]

You forgot: ...designed to illuminate the area directly in front and slightly around the car, in the fog, at night.

I've never understood peoples fascination with driving all the time with the fog lights on. During all my time driving, I can count the number of times on one hand that I have had to turn the fog light on.

Besides ....fog lights are where the brake cooling ducts go

Lol yes, also, since we don't live in the Scottish or Irish moors, fog lights are like stripes.

The other thing is, why would you mount lights for distance low on the car? The chance of glare is increased dramatically, especially if there is not very specific cutoff.

Lights mounted higher shining down would make a lot more sense from a triangulation and cut off perspective.

[Harbinger]

Lol yes, also, since we don't live in the Scottish or Irish moors, fog lights are like stripes.

The other thing is, why would you mount lights for distance low on the car? The chance of glare is increased dramatically, especially if there is not very specific cutoff.

Lights mounted higher shining down would make a lot more sense from a triangulation and cut off perspective.

Didn't think about that. I'll consider all the options.

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