Recent experience at the dealer in my F150

[WidowrRacing]

Thought I would share this story with other F150 owners and I’ll try and sum it up quickly.

Received a recall for a sensor for my 2012 F150 5L with 170kms on the clock. The truck was running fine but it recently started leaking a little coolant in the driveway overnight.

Booked the appointment at Fraser Ford for the recall and got quoted $305 tax in for spark plugs which I thought was a good time to do them at a reasonable price.
I thought about doing them myself but for that price I thought I would leave it to the qualified Ford technicians after viewing how many things could go wrong if I did it.

After researching the coolant leak I was convinced it was the common O ring failure located in the rad hose.
So I also asked Ford to price me the O ring part and install.

I dropped the truck off and couple hours later they called me and said they did a pressure test on the coolant system and diagnosed the problem as NOT the O ring but stated a new thermostat, rad hose and T connector was required and with a coolant flush and service I was looking at nearly $1000 plus tax for that and the price for plugs was incorrect and was actually $305 plus tax.
Also it was $60 to pressure test the system.

Needless to say I lost my mind....and said I never asked for a coolant diagnostic and refused to pay the $60 and for them not to proceed at all with the coolant issue and I would repair it myself.
I argued the $50 tax for the plugs but he simply said it was a misunderstanding and the price was $350.

Next....about 2hrs later service guy calls me back and says the mechanic broke two bolts that hold the coils down and now one new valve cover was required and 2.5hrs to change it and I was looking at an additional $800 plus tax.
I advised him that the truck was not there for a valve cover and the problem wasn’t mine because they have experienced qualified technicians.
This argument went on for sometime and eventually I went directly to the dealership manager with it.
The end result was I got the new valve cover, bolts and spark plugs for $640 total tax in.
Which I wasn’t happy about but content you can say cause I didn’t feel I got totally ripped off.

The following day I went back into Fraser Ford and purchased the O ring with the part number I provided for $8 followed by a trip to Carquest for 2 jugs of Ford approved 50/50 coolant for $40.

It honestly took me 15mins to change this O ring and the issue is 100% repaired and hasn’t leaked a drop of coolant since.

I waited a couple days just to make sure everything was good and I contacted Ford and you better believe I left my negative feedback. In terms of money back they said the dealers were privately owned and each was responsible for reimbursement. I feel I exhausted that one out at the time and I would only be wasting my time.

Hope this helps others on here cause I know many others own F150s.

Part number for that O ring is BC3Z-8590-F and many vids can be found on U tube regarding the simple install of it.

[USAWIT2]

My 2012 F150 also leaked at the t-connector, I did the repair myself as the local dealer was way out to lunch on price.
Also at my last oil change they reminded me about the spark plugs, (I'm at 138,000 kms)and they mentioned the possibility of having to replace the cover (extra$$$) if the bolts broke when they tried to remove them

[Boomer]

WOW!!! Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Hard to believe the price they wanted....

I also have a 2012 F-150 that was leaking coolant at the T-connection. Can't believe Ford has these horrible hose connections. Major fail in the F-150's. I replaced mine for almost $150. Now it appears to be leaking coolant that the connection to the reservoir. The recall did cure the shifting /clunk when coming to a stop. I've been looking at the new GMC Sierra's and RAM 1500's.

[Laffs]

I can forgive the mistake on the taxes in price when they meant pretax price, that's honestly something that happen and while annoying shouldn't be reason to lose cool.

The pressure test, more than likely this dealer has had issues in the past when a customer self diagnoses an issue and asks for a specific repair, only to have the customer become irate when that performed work doesn't actually solve their issue. Probably a CYA move on their behalf, however it totally should have been conveyed to you prior to work being authorized as it's an additional cost from what was likely quoted. Not a huge party foul, again just annoying.

I would however, straight up lose my mind at a $350 bill turning in to a $650 bill because someone broke some bolts. Unless you were the last one to change the plugs and tightened them with an impact gun or somehow fouled the threads then I can't say I'd be taking ownership of that bill. A main part of paying someone to do work is to avoid the pratfalls and broken parts that can occur when wrenching isn't your everyday jig, or coming up with proper solutions that don't negate pounding more parts at it. I can acknowledge that "anything is possible" when working on cars but I would still have protested the fact that two snapped bolts turns in to new valve cover territory. Would removing the snapped bolts not be a possible solution? Drilling out and helicoil? Sure those are more cost and time effective than having to source and install and entire new cover and gasket assembly.

Sounds like they were upset with your protesting their methods initially, and when the bolts got broken you got the full bore "required" elements to fix it.

[Minaccia]

It will be the same thing after 2-3 years buy a Tundra if you want to buy a truck that will last and not built cheap. Ford, GMC or Dodge all great trucks to lease for 2 years imo.


WOW!!! Sorry to hear about your ordeal. Hard to believe the price they wanted....

I have also have 2012 F-150 that was leaking coolant at the T-connection. Can't believe Ford has these horrible hose connections. Major fail in the F-150's. I replaced mine for almost $150. Now it appears to be leaking coolant that the connection to the reservoir. The recall did cure the shifting /clunk when coming to a stop. I've been looking at the new GMC Sierra's and RAM 1500's.

[WidowrRacing]

Spark plugs were original and owners manual suggests changing at 160kms.

Would that broken coil bolt issue not have happen if done earlier? Maybe....maybe not.

To clarify it’s the (8m) bolt that holds down each coil to the valve cover that broke.

[5.4MarkVIII]

was it a bolt that broke in a bling hole (drill and re tap) or studs that a nut broke off? it sucks but the repair guy didn't build it, he doesn't own it. why should be personable for a broken bolt? (assuming of course they took all reasonable precautions to avoid it)

as someone in a service industry I would say I never complete a repair a customer has requested without first diagnosing it myself. BUT im 100% up front with my customers about this. "you pay the diagnostic fee, I look determine whats required and fix accordingly" been burned in the past by a customer saying it was one thing, fixing that and then it being my fault some how that the problem was something else.

don't know for sure but is it possible that ford has realized problem with this part and have done an update, and that's why they quoted to replace more than just the O ring?

[ZR]

Fact of the matter, the are all junk, buy the one that suits you best n hope it's a good one. The Honda, Toyota, Nissan built better than anyone else ship has long since sailed.
Coil pack screws seizing into zerts moulded to intake manifolds n valve covers, very common n good luck fixing it. On some, can get lucky n use a piece of heater hose of similar to trap it under the fuel rail or similar. Reg customers here, suggest sub 100k or 5-6 yrs max for first set of plugs, does cut down on the above plus plugs that won't come outta the heads. Copper never-seize or similar on coil bolts guarantees' they'll come out next time.

[ZR]

As for ridiculously expensive repairs, on way home from knee surgery, Kaths' HHR thermostat failed. No way I wanted to be outside next day changing it never so had her call to get a price, cheapest dealer was a hair under $400 plus tax. Hadn't looked yet but figured it must be in a bastard of a place but not spending that kind dough so called and ordered one ( $96 plus tax / thanks for the bend over GM). Next day, took Ross all of 20 minutes to change with me leaning up against the car. How in the hell does that translate into $400 plus tax? Lil wonder so many think dem dat work on vehicles are all crooked.

[WidowrRacing]

I can’t even imagine what my bill would have been if given the green light to “just go ahead and fix whatever needs to be done”......$2500?

[5.4MarkVIII]

got to cover overhead.. lol

people tell me all the time I charge too much. ($80 for the service call includes travel and diagnostic, and a buck a min to install the part, most are 10 15 min tops)

I tell them I charge less than a mechanic and they make you bring the car to them. lol

[WidowrRacing]

If I’m not mistaken I think the service manager said their labour rate was $139 per hour.

[Screw]

It will be the same thing after 2-3 years buy a Tundra if you want to buy a truck that will last and not built cheap. Ford, GMC or Dodge all great trucks to lease for 2 years imo.

I would have agreed with you a few years ago with Toyota production, but from my personal experience with our 2nd Rav I think they are sliding big time
Maybe the Tundras are still ok idk man , just got a call from dealership trying to sell me a repair that I have under extended warranty, pissed , we read the agreement together and he acknowledged it was covered .
To add to my rant ,I go in there the other day and find the same service advisor that turned me off Macalpine Ford , bad move on Toyota’s part.

[5.4MarkVIII]

If I’m not mistaken I think the service manager said their labour rate was $139 per hour.

damn.

[Screw]

I think what missy needs is a black Srt Cherokee;)

[RedSN]

As for ridiculously expensive repairs, on way home from knee surgery...
What’s the labour rate on that?

[1BAD92LX]

Those coil bolts are 5mm with a 8mm socket head. I broke 4 on my own truck. Luckily was able to take the time and remove the broken bolt. The kind of time needed to remove the broken bolts doesn't exist at a dealer. I blame the flat rate system and dealership mentality. Tech gets payed more to replace the valve cover than to explain to the customer that he may be able to remove a broken bolt in a metal insert pressed into a plastic valve cover. Would hate to spend the time to remove 3 bolts only to have the 4th one tear the insert out of the plastic.

[Clutt gt]

I was taught that same lesson years ago. A buddy that was a tech at a dealer was changing the pads and rotors on my 98 Tacoma. @ 180,000km and 5 year old truck first set.
He had a bitch of a time getting the pads out of the caliper or freeing up the caliper. Any how he spent a bit of time and got everything working. He said at work if it was being that much of a pain. They would jus cut them off and customer would get new lines calipers and rotors done. More money for him and the dealer and less time dicking around with rusted junk.

Can’t say I blame him.

[Hotford]

Next time call me..lol

[5.4MarkVIII]

there is a thing with a lot of customers. not sure what you would call it but if you take time fighting with old part then charge a bunch of labor to cover the time the customer usual tends to be more upset than if you just replace the part. not sure if its a perspective thing. but some people don't get that sometimes rust and old parts is a HUGE pain. so they cant in their head justify extra labor for something only held on by a couple of bolts. vs something just being broke and needing to be replaced.


in my experience you dick around with a bad part. spend the extra time get it to work, then a few weeks later the part dicks up again, now the customer is demanding you fix it properly and they don't want to pay a thing for it.

[ZR]

No doubt, sometimes job takes a turn the customer would prefer it didn't and cost goes up accordingly. If said turn is because of the job itself (seized bolt / damage beyond what initial inspection revealed), well thats life. Guess where I take issue, those that take advantage just because they can.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Very true. Gives the rest of us repair guys a bad name

[ZR]

Surely does.

[Screw]

Question about the role of service advisors...do they get a % of billable customers & less for warranty customers ? I think Toyota hired both dufus’s from Ford , I will never go back to Newmarket Toyota. Cars been there since Monday under ECP warranty work & buddy says no loaner car since it’s only a 3hr book rate on repair ....but they’ve had the thing taken apart since Monday waiting for parts wtf !

[Das 5.0]

Some advisors get a % of CP labor/parts sold and then a dollar amount per CSI survey returned over say 90% or greater as a score. They also get bonused on Selling Extended Warranties/Snow tires etc....dealers all have there own pay scale to front line staff.

[Ontariomystic]

It will be the same thing after 2-3 years buy a Tundra if you want to buy a truck that will last and not built cheap. Ford, GMC or Dodge all great trucks to lease for 2 years imo.

Same reason I went with the Titan. After having serveral Nissan NV commercial vans they are just built better and have less stupid issues. Hoping the Titan is the same.

[WidowrRacing]

Next time call me..lol

I would have but I’m still waiting for a response from a text I sent you in February...lol.

The truck was already going to be at Ford and for $305 tax in....I thought that was reasonable.

On a more positive note the truck is getting better fuel mileage now.

[RedSN]

Same reason I went with the Titan. After having serveral Nissan NV commercial vans they are just built better and have less stupid issues. Hoping the Titan is the same.
So far so good with the Frontier. Only issue so far: one blown rear shock. No recalls.
And way cheaper than the Toyota. Not saying the Taco isn’t a good truck, just saying it wasn’t as good value.

[Screw]

So far so good with the Frontier. Only issue so far: one blown rear shock. No recalls.
And way cheaper than the Toyota. Not saying the Taco isn’t a good truck, just saying it wasn’t as good value.

Tried sitting in back seat of a Taco....? Is Frontier a little more roomier ...sorry for de-rail

[Darkhorse]

What’s the labour rate on that?

Exactly......I do get losing your mind over someone trying to rip you off, but you are the same dudes that just "take" whatever mortgage rate the monkey in the branch decides to give you without escalating it to head office too, which means even at an extra 10-20 bps you're paying tens of thousands more over the life of your mortgage and blissfully ignorant to it.

it's only because you're car guys that you know what it takes and want to save money. The average non-car guy household just pays the $1500 and moves on.

Work on all the other stuff that drains your wallet too, not just the extra .5 labor for guys that likely make less than you anyway.

[Laffs]

Exactly......I do get losing your mind over someone trying to rip you off, but you are the same dudes that just "take" whatever mortgage rate the monkey in the branch decides to give you without escalating it to head office too, which means even at an extra 10-20 bps you're paying tens of thousands more over the life of your mortgage and blissfully ignorant to it.

it's only because you're car guys that you know what it takes and want to save money. The average non-car guy household just pays the $1500 and moves on.

Work on all the other stuff that drains your wallet too, not just the extra .5 labor for guys that likely make less than you anyway.

I know this was meant to be an overarching statement and not specifically directed at anyone, but I'm definitely mortgage negotiation guy. Also your point is one of my major annoyances with friends and relatives. Not just mortgage rates but lending and fixed investment rates as well. It's crazy how much we work to make and "save" money but then once it gets to the financial institution level it's "guess that's how it is"

Working in a bank as my first job out of University was more educational and valuable than the 4 years I spent in post-secondary.

That said, yeah I'm still gonna argue labour on stuff I don't think I should pay labour lol....

[hammerhead]

I refuse a lot of work if I don't make what I want. - I gladly refer them to someone who will work for less. My favourite line from prospective customers is "But we really want you to do it" I just laugh and say take down the street pay less and be unhappy. If its not making money to justify my time and hard work there no point in opening the door.

I've also been known to say "just do it yourself"

[stangstevers]

I refuse a lot of work if I don't make what I want. - I gladly refer them to someone who will work for less. My favourite line from prospective customers is "But we really want you to do it" I just laugh and say take down the street pay less and be unhappy. If its not making money to justify my time and hard work there no point in opening the door.

I've also been known to say "just do it yourself"

Those aren't customers anyway, they're anti-value. People want Kobe Strip Steak at SPAM prices and at the end of the day someone is paying for that difference. The customer with quality cuts or the vendor with profitability. Both are unhealthy for the business. It's ok to cut grade but not quality and those who can't understand that aren't good customers. - Let them ruin some other brand.

[ZR]

With so many spouting across the internet what things should cost / what they claim to have paid, far too many drink the coolaid and take it as the truth.

[hammerhead]

Those aren't customers anyway, they're anti-value. People want Kobe Strip Steak at SPAM prices and at the end of the day someone is paying for that difference. The customer with quality cuts or the vendor with profitability. Both are unhealthy for the business. It's ok to cut grade but not quality and those who can't understand that aren't good customers. - Let them ruin some other brand.

With all respect I don't haggle either way if that's the cost I respect a persons need for and their education, commitment and need or reward - if i don't like the cost I look elsewhere or other alternatives - the difference between white collar and blue collar (I think I'm in the middle somewhere) is if I get a Better financial rate somewhere else, it is offered to me. I will be happy - if a white collar gets a better labour rate they may not be happy an I may cost them more in the end - its a different skill set up with different end result - I think in the future a highly creative and skilled individual will have more value than a highly educated individual especially with rate on how tech is changing everything as we know it.

[Darkhorse]

With so many spouting across the internet what things should cost / what they claim to have paid, far too many drink the coolaid and take it as the truth.

Agree with this too, everyone likes to say they got it for nothing or next to nothing, when things cost money and add up quick. Time is money too so when you built your car for half of what a shop charges, your 500 hours of time was in there too. Glad you have the time not everyone does.

[Screw]

It’s one thing to pay fair rate and then there’s gauging....when peeps backs against the wall far too easy for greasy fkrs to take advantage ! I see it too often and absolutely hate it when someone tries to pull that bs on me