Modular Construction Marriott Hotel NYC

[Chinga]

Pretty neat as each unit comes complete save for soap and shampoo.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8m_XURNbKY&t=175s&ab_channel=TheB1M

[5.4MarkVIII]

Faze out higher paying trades jobs in favour of shippable modules built by un licensed lower wage factory workers.

More money in the pocket for billionaires.

[Laffs]

Faze out higher paying trades jobs in favour of shippable modules built by un licensed lower wage factory workers.

More money in the pocket for billionaires.

Fucking race to the bottom

[1quikgt]

Faze out higher paying trades jobs in favour of shippable modules built by un licensed lower wage factory workers.

More money in the pocket for billionaires.

From my understanding when my wife and I were looking into a modular home the builder was using licensed tradespeople and going through all the inspections. Just all being done inside a building.

[Snaketamer]

From my understanding when my wife and I were looking into a modular home the builder was using licensed tradespeople and going through all the inspections. Just all being done inside a building.

Was it being built in Poland?

[5.4MarkVIII]

From my understanding when my wife and I were looking into a modular home the builder was using licensed tradespeople and going through all the inspections. Just all being done inside a building.

I work directly with a couple modular home builders.

One person in each trade is licensed. They just sign off On Everything else. All the actual workers are not usually licensed. The workmanship in some cases is appalling. And in some cases they use the fact that they are modular so they don’t need to adhere to residential codes. Despite final location and build is permanent and should fall under proper residential codes.

[hammerhead]

some people will do anything to get out of lumping all those mattress' to the top floor...

[Black Sheep]

Saw a hotel building in San Antonio that was done the same way….fully furnished cubes craned into position…

[92redragtop]

So I'm confused, do we like capitalism or not? This is how capitalism works so what's the issue - there's a market and profit to be made (ie. pay lowest rate possible for production inputs including labour and charge the highest the market will support, within the law of course, in theory).

[hammerhead]

So I'm confused, do we like capitalism or not? This is how capitalism works so what's the issue - there's a market and profit to be made (ie. pay lowest rate possible for production inputs including labour and charge the highest the market will support, within the law of course, in theory).

The way these are built is no different than how production cars are built don’t see an issue with it - I worked in trailer manufacturing at minimum wage and at the end of the line a licensed mechanic looked at it an stuck a safety on it - that was the early 90’s

What took them so long…lol

[5.4MarkVIII]

So I'm confused, do we like capitalism or not? This is how capitalism works so what's the issue - there's a market and profit to be made (ie. pay lowest rate possible for production inputs including labour and charge the highest the market will support, within the law of course, in theory).

Capitalism is equal trade of goods and service.

It is not undercutting skilled labour by flouting the rules.
As usual people do understand the difference between corporate or government cronyism and actual capitalism.
Blur the lines because it’s the only way to argue against the one thing that’s brought more people out of poverty than anything else in history.

[5.4MarkVIII]

The way these are built is no different than how production cars are built don’t see an issue with it - I worked in trailer manufacturing at minimum wage and at the end of the line a licensed mechanic looked at it an stuck a safety on it - that was the early 90’s

What took them so long…lol

Different when your talking something that just requires final inspection and something that anywhere else would cause issues. Gas guy needs to be licensed anywhere else he is doing work. Even if it’s just signed up as an apprentice.

[hammerhead]

Different when your talking something that just requires final inspection and something that anywhere else would cause issues. Gas guy needs to be licensed anywhere else he is doing work. Even if it’s just signed up as an apprentice.

I repair trailers now and for about thirty years and need a license. It is no different than when I wasn’t t licensed at a manufacturing facility - the government also demands yearly inspections and by annual for some equipment again by a licensed person like a gas guy when a gas guy is finished threading and assembling pipe he’s done - I’m sure the final hookup and inspection is done by licensed people - the list on manufacturing this way is endless from cranes to skyjack In Guelph to elevators - the common denominator is all is built buy cheap labour your point make no sense to me - if every assembler was licensed we would be sitting on rocks - this type of building seems to make the most sense when everything is factored in…I would think if I had a choice this would be one option to consider.

[92redragtop]

Capitalism is equal trade of goods and service.



I have never seen that definition before - where is it from? Looks more like the opposite of capitalism.

From the old school dictionary (Mirriam Webster):

Definition of capitalism
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

[5.4MarkVIII]

I have never seen that definition before - where is it from? Looks more like the opposite of capitalism.

From the old school dictionary (Mirriam Webster):

Definition of capitalism
: an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market

i dumbed it down. read a book.

[5.4MarkVIII]

I repair trailers now and for about thirty years and need a license. It is no different than when I wasn’t t licensed at a manufacturing facility - the government also demands yearly inspections and by annual for some equipment again by a licensed person like a gas guy when a gas guy is finished threading and assembling pipe he’s done - I’m sure the final hookup and inspection is done by licensed people - the list on manufacturing this way is endless from cranes to skyjack In Guelph to elevators - the common denominator is all is built buy cheap labour your point make no sense to me - if every assembler was licensed we would be sitting on rocks - this type of building seems to make the most sense when everything is factored in…I would think if I had a choice this would be one option to consider.

but again its difference with construction. if a plumber does work anywhere else he needs to be licensed. same as electrical and gas. if doing a renovation or a ground up build anywhere else. it should not be any different just because the residential stuff is build in a giant building. and even in these examples there STILL has to be a building inspection done. the manufacturing of pre fab and modular building that i have witnessed over the last 10 plus years. its nothing but butcher work and corner cutting done buy un licensed workers. as long as the finished product looks good with lip stick and mascara it passes the "final inspection" ive seen electrical hooked up wrong. plumbing done wrong ive seen gas lines that weren't even hooked up. and multipole code violations. all stuff that passed final inspection.

[5.4MarkVIII]

Double post

[Stephen06GT]

i dumbed it down. read a book.

I think he did.

[5.4MarkVIII]

I think he did.

obviously not a relevant one if he doesn't know the difference between cronyism and capitalism. though most people don't because they don't bother to learn anything for themselves anymore and just regurgitate what their confirmation bias tells them inside their echo chamber.

[Laffs]

So I'm confused, do we like capitalism or not? This is how capitalism works so what's the issue - there's a market and profit to be made (ie. pay lowest rate possible for production inputs including labour and charge the highest the market will support, within the law of course, in theory).

My critique of this method isn't with capitalism itself but more with the consumerism that has brought us to this point in time coupled with the commodification of housing. I don't (completely) fault large GC's for trying to cater to the increased demand for more places to put people for less money, but I do fault the people and systems that have allowed housings prices to skyrocket to a point where this sort of assembly line bullshit is needed. Also, people really need to wake up to what a "quality" building is and its not granite counters and fancy light fixtures its the framing, mechanical and overall building science behind you walls that makes a house a quality build.

[92redragtop]

My critique of this method isn't with capitalism itself but more with the consumerism that has brought us to this point in time coupled with the commodification of housing. I don't (completely) fault large GC's for trying to cater to the increased demand for more places to put people for less money, but I do fault the people and systems that have allowed housings prices to skyrocket to a point where this sort of assembly line bullshit is needed. Also, people really need to wake up to what a "quality" building is and its not granite counters and fancy light fixtures its the framing, mechanical and overall building science behind you walls that makes a house a quality build.

I get all that but some call for "free markets" (ie. capitalism) while branding other systems as socialism/communism then we criticize some capitalists for being successful. Consumerism is one of the downstream effects of a system based on capitalism as it's just the demand side of the equation where consumers want to use a little of their "inputs" (ie. money) for maximum gain/benefit while producers or anyone else in the supply chain are also doing so - in theory, there is an equilibrium at some point (ie. efficient market/invisible hand concepts). It certainly isn't perfect in the real world and there are winners and losers in the competition. Any other "definition" of capitalism where both sides are "equal" is akin to "everyone gets a medal!". Regulation is just there to attempt to even the playing field.

But I haven't read any books on it...lol...I'll grab my popcorn so we don't lose the thread.

BTW: agree with the fickleness of what consumers look for at times and consider "quality"...but then again, free markets.....

[92redragtop]

I think he did.

LOL...I'd love to see a source that has "alternative" versions of what Oxford/MW/Investopedia, etc has.

[5.4MarkVIII]

LOL...I'd love to see a source that has "alternative" versions of what Oxford/MW/Investopedia, etc has.


I’ll post sources when you start doing the same. I said before I was done with your bullshit and hypocrisy. A few decent members have stoped posting because they were tired of your constant demands for sources while constantly posting bullshit and refusing to ever provide a reliable backing for it.

Sadly I keep getting sucked back in because I’m a Ford guy and have friends here.

Long and short. Stop being a dick and I’ll do the same.

[92redragtop]

I actually posted a definition (not edited at all) of capitalism directly from Mirriam-Webster Dictionary (similar definition as Oxford) - are those not "sources"??

Here's another from Investopedia.com:

What Is Capitalism?
Capitalism is an economic system in which private individuals or businesses own capital goods. The production of goods and services is based on supply and demand in the general market—known as a market economy—rather than through central planning—known as a planned economy or command economy.

The purest form of capitalism is free market or laissez-faire capitalism. Here, private individuals are unrestrained. They may determine where to invest, what to produce or sell, and at which prices to exchange goods and services. The laissez-faire marketplace operates without checks or controls.

Today, most countries practice a mixed capitalist system that includes some degree of government regulation of business and ownership of select industries.

[5.4MarkVIII]

So where in that definition does it say that capitalism is cronyism or even consumerism?

When a large multinational company uses shady rules to side step laws and regulations that would adhere to any smaller business. That is NOT capitalism.

[92redragtop]

We could ask them to change their definitions if we don't like what they have.

[92redragtop]

Back to regularly scheduled programming of the thread - aren't most things "modularized" in production now and have been converting for last 2-3 decades? I think our cars are built in a modular production system with major "systems"/components delivered to an assembler (now Ford, GM, etc) for assembly. I think the planes we fly on and even the spacecraft are modular built - regulation is supposed to control minimum quality levels. I know a lot of homes/commercial construction has been modularized in recent years but it's interesting with high rise structures like a hotel if they can build/assemble it "turn-key".

[Laffs]

Back to regularly scheduled programming of the thread - aren't most things "modularized" in production now and have been converting for last 2-3 decades? I think our cars are built in a modular production system with major "systems"/components delivered to an assembler (now Ford, GM, etc) for assembly. I think the planes we fly on and even the spacecraft are modular built - regulation is supposed to control minimum quality levels. I know a lot of homes/commercial construction has been modularized in recent years but it's interesting with high rise structures like a hotel if they can build/assemble it "turn-key".

My personal beliefs are that I'm more comfortable with modular assembly systems on items that have an inherent element of serviceability built in. Cars/Planes/Etc are all designed to be serviced/repaired a lot more frequently than say the mechanicals of your house or vital envelope systems like your roof. Say your car had all its body panels shipped then welded together at the dealer to save on transport costs you'd end up with wildly different build quality across the same model range based on the final assembler doing the work. You'd also be more likely to have corrosion issues as the result of untreated materials being exposed to elements during shipping. These are both concerns with modular builds.

I have no fucking clue how debating capitalism got involved here (did I defend capitalism somewhere and forget?), my critique with these is modern society is way to quick to cut out skilled labour and intelligent construction methods for the sake of a comparatively small reduction in overall building expense. We're racing to the bottom on price and on quality yet no one seems to care so long as they acquire more "stuff"

[hammerhead]

My personal beliefs are that I'm more comfortable with modular assembly systems on items that have an inherent element of serviceability built in. Cars/Planes/Etc are all designed to be serviced/repaired a lot more frequently than say the mechanicals of your house or vital envelope systems like your roof. Say your car had all its body panels shipped then welded together at the dealer to save on transport costs you'd end up with wildly different build quality across the same model range based on the final assembler doing the work. You'd also be more likely to have corrosion issues as the result of untreated materials being exposed to elements during shipping. These are both concerns with modular builds.

I have no fucking clue how debating capitalism got involved here (did I defend capitalism somewhere and forget?), my critique with these is modern society is way to quick to cut out skilled labour and intelligent construction methods for the sake of a comparatively small reduction in overall building expense. We're racing to the bottom on price and on quality yet no one seems to care so long as they acquire more "stuff"

your point is spot on with me - I really don't see any cost savings here - In fact I can see the need for maybe more skilled people just maybe not at the manufacturing end and we don't know the details here - this building makes total sense all around - Does it make sense for a crane to bring up a bundle of 2x4's throughout the day and a bucket of cement - then have dozens of movers scurrying up and down with all the furnishings - or to have the crane ( already there) move a complete unit - I would think these cube are not really structural and are placed into a structure (but again don't have the details) the biggest fore site I see here less chance of fatal injury Time saved to maybe have to go thru fewer safety measures - this might have several cost saving advantages - there's hacks at every level of every business and trade - and yes people really love to have shit and mistake quality for bling...lol and there's too many big words here so my comment is probably just dumb cause I suck at big words...lol

[5.4MarkVIII]

I have no fucking clue how debating capitalism got involved here (did I defend capitalism somewhere and forget?), my critique with these is modern society is way to quick to cut out skilled labour and intelligent construction methods for the sake of a comparatively small reduction in overall building expense. We're racing to the bottom on price and on quality yet no one seems to care so long as they acquire more "stuff"

It was a dig (I’d guess at me since it seemed in response to my original post) It’s a common tactic Used to twist an argument into debating something irrelevant to the original points made.

[5.4MarkVIII]

We could ask them to change their definitions if we don't like what they have.

Why? So it fits what you were claiming? Or you could just admit you were wrong.

[RedSN]

I have no fucking clue how debating capitalism got involved here
I’ll recap it for you:

Post #1 somebody posts a really interesting video about modular building construction.
Post #2 reply is: “More money in the pocket for billionaires.”
Post #3: “Fucking race to the bottom”

Seems like the thread derailed immediately.


But, back on topic, since I’m a sucker that way….
We are building a couple of modular construction long term care facilities right now here in the GTA.

https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/sites/default/files/images/articles/2021/06/45348/45348-134444.jpeg

[5.4MarkVIII]

I’ll recap it for you:

Post #1 somebody posts a really interesting video about modular building construction.
Post #2 reply is: “More money in the pocket for billionaires.”
Post #3: “Fucking race to the bottom”

Seems like the thread derailed immediately.


But, back on topic, since I’m a sucker that way….
We are building a couple of modular construction long term care facilities right now here in the GTA.

https://cdn.skyrisecities.com/sites/default/files/images/articles/2021/06/45348/45348-134444.jpeg

Maybe I shouldn't be so cynical. It’s interesting and if done right could be an answer for low income housing. Unfortunately I just know that isn’t how it will go. Soon enough these modules will be built In Mexico or China and shipped in.

I’m just getting tired of seeing hard working little guys get forced out by multinational multi million dollar companies that don’t give a crap about the consumer or quality.

Add to that the arrogant bs of blaming capitalism to force an agenda instead of the corruption that allows it. Just sets me off.


Done right by skilled trades people without the government red tape BS. This could the a huge step forward.

Honest question. Since I assume you would be the most likely to know.

Are these modules self contained structures like say a shipping container that just locks together or do they require a structure to carry them?

[RedSN]

I can only speak for the ones we are doing, but yes, the modules are very much like shipping containers with their own integral structural frame and they stack and lock together.
The ground floor of the building pictured above, is conventional steel construction (which our facility is producing). The upper floors are all modular units stacked up on our structure.

[5.4MarkVIII]

I can only speak for the ones we are doing, but yes, the modules are very much like shipping containers with their own integral structural frame and they stack and lock together.
The ground floor of the building pictured above, is conventional steel construction (which our facility is producing). The upper floors are all modular units stacked up on our structure.

It does open up huge possibilities even for things like temporary housing after natural disasters.

[92redragtop]

I can only speak for the ones we are doing, but yes, the modules are very much like shipping containers with their own integral structural frame and they stack and lock together.
The ground floor of the building pictured above, is conventional steel construction (which our facility is producing). The upper floors are all modular units stacked up on our structure.

Is this how the public guys like Extendicare, Chartwell, Sienna, etc are building now? Seems like a faster, more efficient way to put these up given the shortage of these types of facilities. New codes also prohibit ward like rooms so might be more conducive to modular construction with individual self-contained room spaces.

[83 5.0]

Disney did this back in the 70's with their Contemporary resort, 500 rooms
.